Curse

Rocky Raccoon · Jun 27, 2007, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Haven't we been through all of this before.

Prowlinger · Jun 27, 2007, 07:14 PM // 19:14

The point of the matter isn't a flame war here... It appears a growing consensus of people are realizing that loot scaling is greatly in effect, bar none.

I have the skills, I have the elite A+++ builds, I have the perfectly loaded out Heroes that I use all the time... etc etc... the point is progress... loot is far less. Gold may have a higher value now but getting less decent drops than before (even light blues, purples or golds)... it is very hard to continually press onward without a vast increase of forced grind.

Yes. Forced grind. Unless a one in a million charitable person is going to donate me some plat... I am having to go out and run missions, quests, ahem ... Grind just to hopefully get 1 plat now.

No use in yelling at me about finishing the game... I have beat Prophecies twice and have Factions and NF at about 50% progress. I have over 10 characters... Read the wikis, made the builds, joined guilds, etc etc.

All of you people that are already rich and bored and have it all... you don't really care about this issue. If you are still with young broke toons / in a small guild or just solo.... unless you have triple the time now just to accumulate loot... the "poor gw players" are at an all time loss with this nerf.

lyra_song · Jun 27, 2007, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Im confused by this thread.....

You cant get green drops? Green drops are exempt from loot scaling.
You cant get rare items? Rare items are exempt from loot scaling.

The only thing being affected by loot scaling are common items and collector drops.

Just this weekend we did a Forgemaster run in normal mode (hexbreaker aria pwnz in there) with a full party of 8 human players, we had at least 1 rare item drops for everyone (granted i got a crappy Death/Domination shadow staff...but i digress) and several shards.

Dougal Kronik · Jun 27, 2007, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Regardless of what the OP needs or wants to continue playing, like so many others the FUN is gone, or going from the game.

Fanboys can say all they want how the Loot Scaling is not affecting them, or they like it better, or whatever their reasons, but like it or not, more players are against the Loot Scaling and less players in my Guild, Alliance, and Friends List are playing now as a result. I know this because quite a few are friends/acquaintances IRL.

Loot Scaling didn't alleviate the bot problem, and I would rather have bots than a game with no reward system in place beside the time you spend playing.

Not enough gold now for alcohol.
Not enough drops for common materials.
Not enough gold now skill purchases.
Not enough gold to warrant buying lockpicks or any other keys for that matter.
Just enough gold to break even when using ID and salvage kits.

Yeah, sounds like a lot of fun. Don't think I'll be recommending GW to any others until something gets fixed.

Loviatar · Jun 27, 2007, 07:53 PM // 19:53

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prowlinger

I have the skills, I have the elite A+++ builds, I have the perfectly loaded out Heroes that I use all the time... etc etc... the point is progress... loot is far less.

and i have none of the above as i am a truly casual player who started in early beta and still have only about 1800+ hours over more charcters than you but i play for funnot status of toys

my heroes get hand me downs
i have the skills i decided would be useful/fun and thats all
i still have my original DROKS armor because i like it

i dont spend much but i can buy anything i want which i do at times

Quote:

Yes. Forced grind. Unless a one in a million charitable person is going to donate me some plat... I am having to go out and run missions, quests, ahem ... Grind just to hopefully get 1 plat now.

i can make a low level (lowlands low) vemin run and net 2/3 plat an hour NOT COUNTING

steel from salvage (got 3 this run)
dyes (only junk but for give away)
collectables i want (festival items)

Quote:

No use in yelling at me about finishing the game... I have beat Prophecies twice and have Factions and NF at about 50% progress. I have over 10 characters... Read the wikis, made the builds, joined guilds, etc etc.

why not play it instead of reading about it?

Quote:

All of you people that are already rich and bored and have it all... you don't really care about this issue.

those are the worst complainers of all

Quote:

If you are still with young broke toons / in a small guild or just solo.... unless you have triple the time now just to accumulate loot... the "poor gw players" are at an all time loss with this nerf

who cares about hoarding loot...........i give it away and it still piles up.

i have never made one sale to another player.......not once

give stuff away to friends and noobs yes. sell never except merchant

TheRaven · Jun 27, 2007, 08:05 PM // 20:05

The gold drops are still there. I'm getting a steady drop rate of golds. No they don't happen on each run, but they happen often enough for "rares".

I got an Elemental Sword a few weeks ago. Req 11, nice stats. Sold for over 100k. I didn't get it from a chest. It dropped from a dying monster's hand. I was playing in Normal Mode and was with a full party of 8 henchies. So, it's possible.

Now, if you are expecting stuff like Elemental Swords each day while in normal mode, you will be greatly disappointed.

lyra_song · Jun 27, 2007, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Prowlinger, it really just sounds like you have bad luck with drops and are blaming it on the loot scaling, when loot scaling is most prominent on solo farmers, not people who play normally.

Before Nightfall I decided to farm Ghial. Someone i knew had to farm him over 30 times to get his staff. I killed him twice in a row and got 2 staves. Thats a 100% drop rate. What about the other guy who got it 1 out of 35 times? To him, the game must feel like a giant suckfest....all that grinding for only 1 staff. Meanwhile i got 2 staves in less than 30 minutes of playing.

Two players, two different experiences. Same game.

My in game farming now is about 1 hour a week. Im VERY slow, since...im lazy...and i take breaks in the middle of farming. I havent been making money farming, since im inefficient and it bores me easily.

However...i have been playing, alternating between my Rit, Assassin, Elementalist and Necromancer through Factions, and ive been making money at a steady rate more through missions and quests than farming. And its more fun really.

TabascoSauce · Jun 27, 2007, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Are you making the case that ANet has changed the game system such that playing the game nets you more money per unit of time than a dedicated deliberate attempt to make money?

Based on my own recollection of playing recently, I am thinking you may have a point - and it is messed up. A dedicated attempt to make money should, um, well, make more money?

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

Phantom Gun · Jun 27, 2007, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Well to me it just sounds like you are unlucky, like me.

I don't know maybe loot scaling might have something to do with it. I have been able to get by though. I find farming very boring. However I recently started doing it trying to pick up Bazzr's Staff.

I've been at this run for the past 3 days.

I usualy average about 10 - 15 runs per day depending on how fast I get bored and I clear that area of those 4 bosses, and all the mobs in between. I don't know of a Rt/N build that can solo this area so i've been using heros and henchies.

So far I havn't received any greens or rare golds. But those are exempt from loot scaling so I can only blame that on my bad luck. I did manage to gain 1 black dye, and 1 monstrous fang but those two are exempt from loot scaling.

Now as far as items that are not exempt from loot scaling I can say that I barely ever come out with more then 2 whites. Part of it is because i'm in a party of 8, but still that seems kind of low. As far as gold, well I don't see much of that either. The lack of gold and drops in general might also be the outcome of the suggested "anti nuking code" or whatever it's called.

I'm not sure if such a code exists or not, but between my minion bombing, an SF hero, and a hench mage, i'm starting to think it does. Are you nuking or running with nukers?

Anyway all that aside, I wasn't doing to bad in Elona as far as merc trash goes. I managed to get my rit ancient armor after all, although I already had most of the materials.

Gwmaster · Jun 27, 2007, 09:37 PM // 21:37

i think the problem here is not the gold items and stuff, its the gold(money) i know what im talking about, last week i deleted all my lvl 20s and i made a fresh start,and finding gold is no easy task wen u have to buy skills,armor,weapons.
Gold items drop like rain in hard mode so i dont complain about that, only problem is trying to selling them wen they are worth nothing now, (look at colosals,dead swords, etc) i think the only way to make some money now is selling lockpicks or tomes, and they are pretty hard to find imo.

so far my char is lvl 11 :P and a total of 86 gold in my storage.

Gwmaster · Jun 27, 2007, 09:42 PM // 21:42

i think the problem here is not the gold items and stuff, its the gold(money) i know what im talking about, last week i deleted all my lvl 20s and i made a fresh start,and finding gold is no easy task wen u have to buy skills,armor,weapons.
Gold items drop like rain in hard mode so i dont complain about that, only problem is trying to selling them wen they are worth nothing now, (look at colosals,dead swords, etc) i think the only way to make some money now is selling lockpicks or tomes, and they are pretty hard to find imo.

so far my char is lvl 11 :P and a total of 86 gold in my storage.

ponk · Jun 27, 2007, 09:49 PM // 21:49

There already is an extensive thread about this. Read it you might found it amusing.http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10169755

strcpy · Jun 27, 2007, 10:39 PM // 22:39

The loot scaling was meant two "hurt" two types of players - bots and the ones causing a great deal of inflation. Effectively removing large amounts of gold from the economy.

As far as I can tell it has worked. Not only by noticing in game prices but by reading the these rant threads.

The places that bot gold are fewer and the prices have risen quite a bit - exactly what happens when supply gets limited. Your never going to stop them, however it is MUCH more difficult for many to justify the expense of purchasing gold now and the smaller amount means that the bans are more effective.

There are two classes of those that can no longer acquire gold - those that refuse to adapt and those that were the problem to begin. For a casual farmer gold is easier than ever to acquire - those looking for 500 or less plat have a myriad of venues that give them 10-15k an hour along with golds, greens, mods, and lots of experience. Those that complaints follow along the lines of "only problem is trying to selling them wen they are worth nothing now, (look at colosals,dead swords, etc)". While many on the forums (and many of the complainers) did such it was a VERY small percentage of people doing so but that amount of gold flowing around caused casual players to not be able to afford much. According to their server logs a while back the average player has around 20k in the bank - the price of dead swords is irrelevant to them.

The majority of players spending ability has *greatly* increased - I can now easily afford to equip all my heroes in everything but sup vigor runes (I can, however, afford majors) from simple farming now. Heck, I can nearly equip all of them just from selling the rubies I get from trade contracts. Just from the fixed quest rewards in the other chapters I have *more* than enough to fully equip a character whereas before one had to farm. Again, what got "hurt" are those that are looking for max titles, tons of unlocks from skill purchases, and other higher end things.

Amusingly enough I rather suspect that the way these complaints are going only reinforces Anet's decision as the main ones complaining are the ones they were trying to slow down anyway. Some may find the above bad, some find it good. Loot scaling has made the game much more pleasurable to me, I have a much easier time affording things - but then again I was never one to farm the UW, Urgoz, or run the player market. Plus when something make a farming method not profitable I just change to one that is - it is not like farming Vermin was loads of fun and farming undead horrid.

Alas Poor Yorick · Jun 28, 2007, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Excuse me,

But would someone please tell me exactly where this loot scaling is happening?

I do see some anit- farming code in that the first few kills in an area yield very little and if I kill several things at once with some kind of AoE I get very few drops.

Over the last few days playing in normal mode and killing things one at a time I get drops from every single kill after the 1st 5 kills in Plains of Jarin, all over Shing Jea Island, Old Ascalon, North of Bergen and Pre-Searing (including the Northlands). And I get exactly what I would have expected before the loot scaling when playing with a 4 man H&H team in Pongmei Valley

Yes, there is loot scaling in Hard Mode. But, since I have made and spent over 500k in the last 2 months in Hard Mode, I don't think I am going to complain about that.

So please tell me - in normal mode, where is this loot scaling happening?

Zeek Aran · Jun 28, 2007, 12:38 AM // 00:38

Read enough crap, and here's my quick word:

You haven't beat the game. You have no right to complain.

In normal mode, I was getting one gold drop a day or MORE and I was NOT farming, and had a full AI group. I really doubt the things you have said are completely true.

Sergeant of Marines · Jun 28, 2007, 01:01 AM // 01:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeek Aran

Read enough crap, and here's my quick word:

You haven't beat the game. You have no right to complain.

In normal mode, I was getting one gold drop a day or MORE and I was NOT farming, and had a full AI group. I really doubt the things you have said are completely true.

/signed

All in All, I have made a ton more money since loot scaling has come into affect, before I was getting by but since loot scaling, I have gotten one set of Fow armor, about 6 15k set of armors and a vast majority of nice weapons...I farm about 3 times a week for about an hour or two an djust play random things like Deep/DOA or just help a guildie out...I also made alot of cash just pushing characters throught the campaigns...this is not to brag or anything, just my experience, hope some people have gotten this as well....

byteme! · Jun 28, 2007, 01:09 AM // 01:09

1)Skill still cost the same. It starts out at 0g but once it reaches 1k each it stays 1k each.

2)You gotta equip all your characters with armor, weapons and many choose look over functionality such as myself.

3)Guild Halls and the NPC's within cost a fortune.

4)ID kits and Salvage Kits cost 100g, 400g, 500g, and 2000g

5)Chest running

On behalf of new players I really don't know how they can effectively earn enough money to afford such things. I mean if I paid $50 x 3 (all 3 campaigns) and I can't play the game the way "I" want to play it then why should I even bother? I know I don't need to have "uber" items and tons of gold but it's a part of the game and you can't expect new players to shell out real money for a game that basically limits all new players to only the "bare essentials" just to get through the game. GW is already very linear as it is and to make it that much more linear is not making things any better. Many people like to maximize their gaming experiences. Stuff like owning Guild Halls, armors that fit to taste, unlocking skills and even chest running. How does a new player afford to open chests? I know they don't have to but it's part of the game design. Quite frankly new players are gonna have a much longer/harder time doing the things we older players took for granted.

Again I am speaking in a new players point of view and not of myself.

Zorgy · Jun 28, 2007, 01:14 AM // 01:14

I am confused too by this thread

I give you my clue for FREE ........its a gold mine.

We have 10 fingers & only 1 brain LOL .....+ a LIMITED amount of playing time

So you have to make logical/rational choices linked to the GOALS you want to achieve....you follow me?

I play GW since the 11th of may 2005 & I personaly have ONE & ONLY one lvl20 pve character. I completed the 3 stand alones with this character and I rock, believe me. As soon as the game is released I buy it, and I play + I have fun + you can PUG + the map is virgin LOL (i was among the first to do Urgoz & The Deep) + all the wise players STRANGELY aggro together = YOU get rich

....do you still follow me?

So you create an advantage that will help you to level up other characters, and much much much much quicker than creating one character for each profession you like.

My girl friend has 3 characters, friends 3 and there is one spot left for one PVP character.

This is my way of playing GW, cause I hate redoing what I have done ONCE. same for films, I hate to watch a film more than one time.

My safes/mules LOL are stuffed with gold, purple and few greens and rare items = I dont need to lose my time spamming main channel with dozens of WTS

+ all my heroes have max lvl + best equipment possible.

The only things I ever bought were cc alias candy canes

This is the trick and dont complain cause I HM with heroes + henchies + lockpits = I have gold and purple drops each time.

And every month I make my treasure tour which cost nothing and bring me good drops too + money...less than before but still good.

I solo smites in UW from time to time when I need cash for lockpits LOL and I have 805K in bank.

I never make what you call a REAL BARGAINING trade, I give items for free and sell them 50% off the market price to mates

So you are a bit late, think about it and TRY to make the good choices.

You can only blame yourself

Good game and have fun...........

byteme! · Jun 28, 2007, 01:16 AM // 01:16

1)Skill still cost the same. It starts out at 0g but once it reaches 1k each it stays 1k each.

2)You gotta equip all your characters with armor, weapons and many choose look over functionality such as myself.

3)Guild Halls and the NPC's within cost a fortune.

4)ID kits and Salvage Kits cost 100g, 400g, 500g, and 2000g

5)Chest running

On behalf of new players I really don't know how they can effectively earn enough money to afford such things. I mean if I paid $50 x 3 (all 3 campaigns) and I can't play the game the way "I" want to play it then why should I even bother? I know I don't need to have "uber" items and tons of gold but it's a part of the game and you can't expect new players to shell out real money for a game that basically limits all new players to only the "bare essentials" just to get through the game. GW is already very linear as it is and to make it that much more linear is not making things any better. Many people like to maximize their gaming experiences. Stuff like owning Guild Halls, armors that fit to taste, unlocking skills and even chest running. How does a new player afford to open chests? I know they don't have to but it's part of the game design. Always the same old arguments too. "You don't need money". "You don't need those rare/nice looking weapons/armor" WHAT IF NEW PLAYERS WANT IT? I think we all agree if they want something they are gonna have to go and earn it. But why is a new player now expected to work 3x as hard as a player who started 1-2 years ago? Awhile back a recommended GW to many of my friends and co-workers but lately not so much. Quite frankly new players are gonna have a much longer/harder time doing the things we older players took for granted.

Again I am speaking in a new players point of view and not of myself.

strcpy · Jun 28, 2007, 02:50 AM // 02:50

Anything player market driven is the same - you get less gold yet it costs less. Even the really rare stuff (say a req9 elemental sword) is coming down in price and the only ones that can afford it are the long term farmers. It is currently not much harder to get than before and as the more "rich" players spend their gold it will quickly stabilize back to where it was before in terms of difficulty to purchase.

The only thing that hurts are the fixed price items - skills, kits, and the base armor cost. But then, you should make enough just going through the campaign to purchase most wanted skills (at least enough for a few significantly different builds) and base armor (which you can now afford to purchase all your insignias and runes whereas before it would have been hard to get all radiant). This is all that a normal casual player will do - the whole point of titles and prestige armor is grind. Some of the titles and armors are now easier, some harder. Mostly that ended up being a wash as far as difficulty goes.

Then, once one character beats the game you are suddenly opened up to farming areas that beats the pants off anything other than the older high end farming areas (UW, FOW, and other elite areas). As easy - and in some cases easier - than mid level normal mode farming and more profitable than those areas before loot scaling. It is quite simple for a 130 dervish or a 55 necro to farm low level HM areas and those builds are *cheap* - it takes very little time with them to afford a 55 monk. Once you get it then you have quite a few really really simple areas that make 10+ plat an hour (Bergin Hot Springs, Dead Sword Farming, Fharanur the Lost City, etc) - I can actively watch TV and farm those areas.

So, again, the only people that feel this are the high end farmers and the people hunting max titles, mostly the high end farmers - while a significant portion of the forums not so of the game world. There are many more people that just noticed prices dropping and their income staying the same (as they group and do not keep up with forums/updates) and are happy - this will be especially true with ones that took time off and will be back for GWEN.